Rian Johnson Says He Wasn’t Trying to Undo J.J. Abrams With ‘The Last Jedi’

Rian Johnson wants people to know he didn’t make The Last Jedi just to undo what J.J. Abrams did in The Force Awakens. In an interview with The Rolling Stone, Johnson opened up about how he approached making the middle film of the Star Wars sequel trilogy and cleared up some long-standing internet theories.

“None of the choices I made were about undoing anything,” Johnson said. “They were all about taking what J.J. had done—this story and these characters I loved—and moving them forward.”

There’s been a lot of talk among fans that Johnson didn’t communicate much with Abrams, which might explain why the trilogy felt a bit disconnected. But Johnson says they did talk. “We met and I spent days with him. I got to understand the choices he was making,” he explained. “Then I went off and made my movie.”

For Johnson, Lucasfilm had made it clear what they wanted from him. “Kathy [Kennedy] told me they were looking for someone to do the Empire [Strikes Back] of this trilogy,” he said. “I took that seriously. Maybe more seriously than some would’ve liked. But I didn’t take it as just doing nods to Empire—I tried to actually do what Empire did, which was take things to a deeper level.”

One of the biggest moments in The Last Jedi was the death of Snoke. Fans had expected Snoke to be the main villain throughout the trilogy, but Johnson had other ideas. He was more drawn to Kylo Ren. “Watching Adam Driver in the first movie, especially the interrogation scene, I was so impressed,” Johnson said. “I didn’t just toss Snoke aside—I used him to push Kylo to the next level. That was the most impactful thing I could do with that character.”

Another huge moment in The Last Jedi was the Holdo Maneuver, when Vice Admiral Holdo jumps to lightspeed through a giant enemy ship. That idea came from something Johnson remembered from A New Hope. “Han tells Luke that if you don’t make the right calculations, you could fly into a star,” he said. “So I thought, what if someone actually did that on purpose? And it had to be a big deal—it couldn’t just be a one-off trick.”

Johnson also spoke about how fans reacted to the movie. While The Last Jedi did really well with critics and made a lot of money, a part of the fandom was loudly upset online. Johnson remembers how it felt. “It never feels great when people come after you, especially when they say things that don’t match up with what you put into the work,” he said. But as someone who grew up loving Star Wars, he understood that strong opinions come with the territory. “When the prequels came out, my friends and I were ruthless,” he said. “Now those movies are beloved. I’m not saying that’s going to happen with mine, but this kind of back-and-forth is part of being a Star Wars fan.”

Some fans have also said that maybe Johnson tried to cram every Star Wars idea he had into one movie, because he thought he’d be making the next one too. But he says that’s not true. “I was always only doing Episode Eight,” he said. “We never planned for me to do Nine. That was never a thing.”

As for The Rise of Skywalker, Johnson doesn’t have any hard feelings. Even though the movie seemed to reverse some of the big choices from The Last Jedi—like saying Rey wasn’t a nobody but instead a Palpatine, Johnson took it in stride. “When I saw the movie, I had fun,” he said. “J.J. did what I did—he told the story he thought was most compelling. I don’t see it as undoing what I did. It’s all just part of the story growing and changing.”

There was talk a while ago that Johnson would return to make another Star Wars trilogy. But that didn’t happen. Johnson said they had great conversations at Lucasfilm and even kicked around some ideas, but then Knives Out happened. He got busy making his murder mystery movies and is happy doing his own thing right now. Still, he says he’d be thrilled to come back one day.

For now, he’s just writing faster, making more stuff, and not being too precious about it. “Time is the most valuable thing,” he said. “Who knows how long I’ll be able to get movies made, so I’m taking advantage of it while I can.”

Have something to add? Let us know in the comments below!